Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! As these units accumulate more mileage, these concerns may become more frequent. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . The 4L60E was the first generation of transmission to work with a Gen III Vortec or LS motor. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. NonStop-Transmission. From the workshop on ongoing projects and more, and where the new images are added afterwards. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. I use this vehicle to tow a 20 ft 10k trailer that I use to carry a 5500lb tractor. Ninth 0.69 August 8, 2022. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. Note, all models will have a warmer. 3) 6L80E with fixed output flange is about 2 1/2" shorter than 4L60E and about 3 1/2" shorter than 200-4R. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. How quickly time passes by. These solenoids are directly proportional in that zero current equals zero pressure, and maximum current equals maximum pressure. LT). Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. Online Buyer's Guide
Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). ! Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. LS Swap Automatic Transmission Guide - Chevy Hardcore The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. Cost and Process, Torque Converter Problems: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, Transmission Solenoid: Symptoms & Replacement Cost, 10 Pro Tips on Buying Used Transmissions For Sale, P0700: Transmission Control System Malfunction (TCM), Pontiac Firebird Transmission Problems & Cost | 4L60E / 4L65, Cadillac SRX Transmission Problems & Cost | 5L40E | 6L50 | 6T70, Ford Crown Victoria Transmission Problems & Cost | 4R75E / 4R75W / 4R70W, Chevy Equinox Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 / 6T45 / AW55-50SN, Saturn Aura Transmission Problems & Cost | 6T70 | 6T40 | 4T45E. As the transmission approaches normal operating temperature, reverse movement is non-existent. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. Your email address will not be published. 2) Trans vertical position is the same on 200-4R,700R4,4L60,4L65,70E,6L80E. How is this different from the GM 6L80E transmission that is used in the Corvette or in the newer GM trucks? The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. PML GM 6L90, 6L90E Deep Transmission Pan - PML YourCovers Shift the transmission to Reverse. Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. It's meant to be used with rear-wheel drive and it requires 8.4 quarts of fluid. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. This wavy nature of the clutch surface is made worse with many miles of usage. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. Third 2.15 $3,245*. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. $ 439.00 Select options. The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. New Ford/GM 10-Speed Automatic Transmission: 10 Things to Know The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. It has factory size tires 275/55/20. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. Gears Magazine
At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle starts from a complete stop. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. Some Tahoe and Yukon HD 6.0L, not hybrid, may also have this transmission but most have 6L80 or a 10 speed 10L80. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. One needs to realize that the stamped covers are not all that flat to begin with. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. 6L80, 6L90 Transmissions: Consider an Updated Converter in - Sonnax Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. Ask Away! with Jeff Smith: Explaining 6-, 8-, and 10 - OnAllCylinders As with earlier Hydramatics, the 6L80 will accept either the 258mm or 300mm torque converters. This creates an uneven force on the clutches that tends to . The Novak Guide to the GM 4L80E Automatic Transmission This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Will this hurt the trani? 6L80E Transmission Guide & Information 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. A horsepower revolution spawned by GM's increasingly powerful Gen. III+ V8 engines and their aggressive platforms such as the Cadillac STSV, XLRV, various trucks and SUV's and the venerable Corvette. Applications. Muncie M20 4-speed longitudinal wide ratio manual transmission made by GM at their Muncie, Indiana factory. For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Put simply, its the converter. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. check the starter bendix and see if its loose and bouncing off the flywheel. Comes with a complete harness and the necessary software to program the TCM-2650 Module. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. The More You Know About The 10R80 The Better Off You Are! None of the above categories describe me. With REVolution, your transmission becomes an integral, critical part of your combination, allowing you to maximize its performance using either the Quick 6, Quick 4, or Quick 2 controller. 8l90 vs 10l80 - Surabayapestcontrol.com Renew Subscription
Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. Thanks Jeff. You are browsing camaro6. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. See how the ratios have swapped places? Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. R.F. Gen V 5.3 L83 / 8L90e / Blackbox / 80series - IH8MUD Forum Wait 1 second. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. 10L80 Transmission. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? All rights reserved. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain 10L80 Transmission Rebuild Parts | Raybestos Powertrain Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. Gilbert, * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. Stock capacity . Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. LS/6L80E into G Body (El Camino) - GBodyForum TIPM Problems! if (yr!=2012)
Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. In any event, precise coordinate measuring (CMM scans) of a variety of JMBX covers shows that the covers are wavy and have undulations on the clutch surface, especially opposite of the welded cover pads. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA
Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: That is RIDICULOUS, Cheryl. Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. The Great Chevy Auto Trans Interchange Guide - Street Muscle In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. Made of billet aluminum with included swivel -6 AN fittings with 3/8" barbs. Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). However, at light pedal or road load, single-step upshifts will occur. Indirectly affects shift pressure control. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. In 2018 and later models with the transmission warmer mounted to the transmission, there can be a concern with coolant leaking under the vehicle. Sticking valves and sticking CIDAS solenoids are becoming more common concerns with these units. With a dry weight of approximately 230 lbs, its also very light considering the complexity. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. 2. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. Always inspect the sump for possible evidence of debris that could indicate the pump drive gears could be failing. 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System - Transmission Digest When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. or Best Offer . Conveniently, the main transmission that the 6L80E is going to be confused for all have a different number of pan gasket bolts. GM 6L80E and 8L90E Drag Race Transmissions - ATI Racing Members
It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. Production Began 2017 As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. This creates the situation where the engine drops less rpm from First to Second gear. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. This suggests that the idler gear and ball bearing assembly has a tight interference fit to the stator shaft support housing. First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. I didnt realize that it came equiped with such a lame gear ration 3.08. Subscribe Now
This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. As to length, this transmission is 26-1/4" long. vehicle weights. But the cause he discovered was related to the pump. Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. I'd be modding it to a FBO car with cam and converter eventually. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. This product is NOT intended to be used on factory OE vehicles such as; Cadillac, Corvette, Camaro $ 158.00 Select options. Over time, technicians start to see the same patterns of failures in different families of units. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. You know where this is going yup, its the converter.