In general, higher carbon steels have higher edge retention but lower toughness. G10 This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! Steel ratings are not about ranking steels in terms of what is better than another, but understanding the different balances such as toughness vs edge retention. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. and why would anyone want to use it when 420HC looks so much better for a simple stainless steel option. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. At the end of the article I gave a list of reasons why I hadnt made my own ratings chart, two big reasons were: 1) I didnt yet have articles explaining what edge retention and toughness even is (this was early on in Knife Steel Nerds), 2) I didnt have good experimental numbers on many steels. In thick forms, like a fixed blade, 1095 isa tough, low-cost steel. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. Your email address will not be published. Note:Dont bother with anything less than 8Cr in this series. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. Note just because a blade is made from the premium or high-end steels listed above does not automatically mean its better than the lesser steels. And easy to sharpen in our experience; and that will get an excellent razor edge that lasts for a reasonable price of time. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. 14c28n vs. AUS-8 Steel second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. Why do knives make the best gifts? As a side note, pure tungsten carbide blades (from brands like Sandrin) can have very high levels of edge retention, but they are not made of steel. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. I have a Winkler Knives Recon model in 5160 steel and even though the knife model is ok, the steel is shit. INFI is also quite hard and sharpens easily. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. It was your original article on ratings that brought me to knifesteel nerds so its great to see your results put back into a form that will no doubt be distributed \ plagiarized widely, hopefully leading to more rational thought and better understanding by the knife consuming public (not that the misleading marketing will go away). Start comparing steels. Bohler N690Co Stainless Steel: Is N690 a Good Knife Steel? - KnifeGuides Read more. This isnt exactly how steel works; different properties are difficult to increase without affecting something else. D2 steel Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. 14c28n vs d2 : r/chineseknives - reddit The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. In other words, heat treating a steel to its maximum hardness does not necessarily mean reduced corrosion resistance. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. You can see micrographs of different knife steels to compare their carbides in this article. Read more about how it works here. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. Let's compare 14c28n steel with other steels, and for this, I use four criteria; Edge Retention, Corrosion resistance, Ease of Sharpness, and Toughness and on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) let's see the performance of each steel. What would be the best deal to use I currently alternate between 20CV S35vn and D2. Many steel ratings seem to over-emphasize edge retention. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. Even though it has very high hardness, its also still decently resistant to corrosion and quite tough. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. Its very hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. The brand Bark River uses A2 in many models. Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/ BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. Most of these steels rely on particle metallurgy and are therefore more expensive. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Also D2 is not stainless as at least 5% of its chromium is tied up in carbides where it doesnt help prevent corrosion. 14C28N VS D2 Attributes: 14c28n: D2 . 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. Sorry, most of my previous comment was borderline word salad. D2 Steel Vs S30v: Which Of These Steels Is Better For Knives? HAP40 I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. In its most basic form, steel is just iron and carbon, but people have been studying, experimenting with, and perfecting steel with other elements for specific applications for millennia. Let the job at hand be your guide. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. 14C28N steel is known to offer the highest toughness levels out there. Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. Edge retention is the ability of a knife to maintain cutting ability during cutting. Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. A mirror finish is the best at resisting corrosion and a rough finish means rust and corrosion is more likely. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? Many knife enthusiasts are concerned with categorizing steels as excellent, good, poor, etc. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. They represent the absolute best performers on the market in terms of their specific attributes. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. Carpenter produces this powder steel. 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. Great for tensile strength and Edge retention. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. This is good for ease in heat treating in large batches and for even cooling that greatly reduces warping and size changes. I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. I mean the box cutter type, with the replaceable trapezoidal blades. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. High alloy tool steels are designed to be air hardening, so they can be cooled even slower than the oil hardening steels found above. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. Actually, Id be thinking 14C28N, but I want to leave stainless out. Sharpening the knives might be challenging, but the D2 knife is high quality and affordable. we dont know. The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. there seems to be an optimal procedure for every alloy (provided its heat treated to industial standards). 14C28N VS D2 The two sheets of steel are comparable in terms of toughness and corrosion resistance. Almost all consumer-grade pocket knives, EDC knives, fixed blade knives, etc will be in the range of a Rockwell Hardness rating of 54 to 65 HRC. EDGE RETENTION . 14C28N knives offer excellent corrosion resistance and toughness. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. But yes, I would assume that the general performance would still be relatively similar between them without evidence to the contrary. Despite its wonderful performance, XHP is actually not terribly expensive compared to other high-end, all-around performers. In particular, I have found the ESEE/Rowen 1095 to be less likely to chip and better at holding an edge than the KA-BAR version even in knives with the same role, thickness, and blade length. For example, increasing edge retention from Z-Tuff to 3V (100 mm in the CATRA test) led to a drop in over 10 ft-lbs, a similar drop is seen by going from 3V to CPM-CruWear. That old pine in particular is some crazy hard stuff. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. In reality hardly difference. Here its 8. i understand the samples were treated in the same way. When it debuted, Sal Glesser described XHP as a combination of D2s hardness and 440Cs corrosion resistance. Quick-reference guide: Know your knife steels - KnivesShipFree Knives are one of our oldest tools, so it makes sense that they have evolved into thousands of styles since the first person chipped one out of stone. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in metallurgy terms. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. Spyderco offers this as the high-end steel for many of its evergreen blades, like the Paramilitary 2, Paramilitary 3, Manix 2, and Native 5. It also improves edge retention and strength. 14C28N is thus ideal for use in corrosive environments and challenging applications. S45VN Is that regression line (or other trend line?) Oh, thats great, thanks. Even it enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. So what is the best steel for knives? Where the black-finished 1.4116 version has a simple, full flat grind, the D2 version has a compound flat grind that ends halfway up the blade's height. It richly deserves its reputation for high-quality gained over the years by Sandvik, a Swedish manufacturer of world-renowned steel. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. It is among the best steel that will offer exceptional toughness while still maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. Also I notice 1095 looks like another underperformer as there doesnt look to be any reason to use it over 5160 which I cant imagine is any more expensive than 1095. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. im led to believe tha the melting procedure is more important with these steels than the exact composition. But Ive found it lacking in hardness, even when compared to cheaper steels like AUS-8. The value being slightly different doesnt mean its an outlier or measurement error. No mainstream companies use SM100, and the niche makers that do usually charge more than $1,000 for knives with SM100 blades. Here, we break down how to choose a flashlight, including best flashlight LEDs, batteries, designs, and more. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. edge retention can vary by several orders of magnitude depending on what happens to the burr. The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. They make excellent everyday carry steels, especially for light- and medium-duty tasks. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? Thats why it easy to work and looks nice. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. He is the mind and writer behind Knife Steel Nerds, the go-to source for all knowledge about knife steel. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. Its soft, with very low carbon content. 2. Thank you for such a great article! There is buzz out there but I havent seen anything solid yet in the world of steel. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. 14C28N knives are better than D2 knives in corrosion resistance. 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. I will be focusing on CATRA edge retention which measures abrasive wear of knives. rex 121 In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. Heres a brief description of their impact on the resulting steels properties. And a label: AEB-L. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon.. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. Knife Blades: Common Steels Explained | GearJunkie Steels high in toughness are excellent for knives likely to see hard impacts, like large chopping knives. 14c28n | Civivi But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. But if you want to know what the coolest blade material is, for my money, SM100is it. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. Are you okay with that? It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. While 9Cr18MoV steel is highly corrosion resistant due to the addition of Cr, and Mo. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% its relatively corrosion-resistant. Heres The Best Review For You (2021), D2 knife blade offers high edge retention, Dulls faster, Requires frequent sharpening. AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. Type 8Cr, the more common formulation, is worse than AUS-8: a little more prone to corrosion and not quite as hard. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. Each of these contributes to a knifes overall performance. drop point And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Its possible that there are steel manufacturers with better processing which would lead to an even carbide distribution but I cant say that without seeing it for myself. In some previous articles I have shown the balance between my toughness and edge retention measurements such as in the following chart, where the high alloy non-stainless are in orange and the blue are stainless: However, one issue with these charts are that difference in toughness is that a linear scale for toughness is a bit misleading for visualizing practical toughness differences. This is an American-made powder steel. It boasts an incredible ability to continue cutting long after it seems dull. And its not made of steel. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. Read more. Because of their good edge retention, these steels are quite versatile in folders and fixed blades. And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. What is the Best Budget Knife Steel? - Knife Steel Nerds YMMV Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. Thank you for the accurate data. A good quality knife must have sharpness, great edge retention, and a sturdy handle. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. It has an HRc over 70, usually even harder than Maxamet. Often used for combat knives. and our Below shows approximate maximum hardness vs stainless rating for several stainless knife steels. I would also suggest adding a hardness rating to the ratings tables that currently include toughness, edge retention, and corrosion resistance ratings. This is also a powder-metal steel produced by American steel company Crucible. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. Its very corrosion-resistant and quite tough. Since the heat treatment is done before you get your knife, and its impossible to tell how good the heat treatment is with your eye, you often must rely on the manufacturers reputation for a good heat treat. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . But weve tested this metal in the form of the Sobata 398 for nearly a year and have been continually impressed. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. 14C28N Despite its age, its a truly superior steel. In other words, Rex 121 would be the most difficult to sharpen and 5160 and 8670 would be the easiest. Have you tested K390 sufficiently to be able to rate it? So, its hard steel is easy to sharpen. Still looking forward to magnacut making it into high volume production and use. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. This doesnt necessarily mean they have terrible toughness, but they have limitations. You showed some pictures in this article of the effect on what we might call "effective toughness" of thinner edge angles vs thicker edges in the same steel at the same hardness. Maxamets hardness results in incredible edge retention and a nightmarish sharpening and machining experience. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. Is 14c28n Steel Good For Knives? A Complete Guide - Knife Pulse