But Egypt seems to not really be hugely relevant to the research. I mean, so it was Greek. We know that at the time of Jesus, before, during, and after, there were recipes floating around. And I don't know if there's other examples of such things. . CHARLES STANG: OK. So why the silence from the heresiologists on a psychedelic sacrament? So imagine how many artifacts are just sitting in museums right now, waiting to be tested. So what I think we have here in this ergtotized beer drink from Catalonia, Spain, and in this weird witch's brew from 79 AD in Pompeii, I describe it, until I see evidence otherwise, as some of the very first heart scientific data for the actual existence of actual spiked wine in classical antiquity, which I think is a really big point. Listen to #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More, an episode of The Tim Ferriss Show, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. And when I read psychedelic literature or I read the literature on near-death experiences, I see experiences similar to what I experienced as a young boy. I mean, I wish it were easier. I mean, this is what I want to do with some of my remaining days on this planet, is take a look at all these different theories. Biblical Entheogens: a Speculative Hypothesis - ResearchGate But they charge Marcus specifically, not with a psychedelic Eucharist, but the use of a love potion. That's because Brian and I have become friends these past several months, and I'll have more to say about that in a moment. Who were the Saints? And what about the alleged democratization with which you credit the mysteries of Dionysus, or the role of women in that movement? What's the importance of your abstention from psychedelics, given what is obvious interest. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. CHARLES STANG: All right. He was wronged by individuals, allegedly. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. And considering the common background of modern religions (the Pagan Continuity hypothesis), any religious group who thinks they are chosen or correct are promoting a simplistic and ignorant view of our past. And if it's one thing Catholicism does very, very well, it's contemplative mysticism. What, if any, was the relationship between this Greek sanctuary-- a very Greek sanctuary, by the way-- in Catalonia, to the mysteries of Eleusis? Like savory, wormwood, blue tansy, balm, senna, coriander, germander, mint, sage, and thyme. So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . Because every time I think about ancient wine, I am now immediately thinking about wine that is spiked. To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. You obviously think these are powerful substances with profound effects that track with reality. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. Now, let's get started, Brian. Now, I think you answered that last part. So if you don't think that you are literally consuming divine blood, what is the point of religion? 7:30 The three pillars to the work: the Eucharist as a continuation of the pharmako and Dionysian mysteries; the Pagan continuity theory; and the idea that through the mysteries "We can die before we die so that when we die we do not die" 13:00 What does "blood of Christ" actually mean; the implied and literal cannibalism And besides that, young Brian, let's keep the mysteries mysteries. Find ratings and reviews for the newest movie and TV shows. As a matter of fact, I think it's much more promising and much more fertile for scholarship to suggest that some of the earliest Christians may have availed themselves of a psychedelic sacrament and may have interpreted the Last Supper as some kind of invitation to open psychedelia, that mystical supper as the orthodox call it, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. It was the Jesuits who taught me Latin and Greek. Kanye West (Ye) storms off Timcast IRL show after Tim Pool pushes back But what we do know about the wine of the time is that it was routinely mixed with plants and herbs and potentially fungi. I'm sure he knows this well, by this point. And so that opened a question for me. And at the same time, when I see a thirst, especially in young people, for real experience, and I see so many Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, obviously, what comes to my mind is how, if at all, can psychedelics enhance faith or reinvent Christianity. Many people see that as symbolic or allegorical or just a nice thing, which is not the case. Which turns out, it may be they were. General Stanley McChrystal Mastering Risk: A User's Guide | Brought to you by Kettle & Fire high quality, tasty, and conveniently packaged bone broths; Eight Sleep. Here's the big question. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving 55 This is very likely as it seems that the process had already started in the 4th century. Brendon Benz presents an alternative hypothesis to recent scholarship which has hypothesized that Israel consisted of geographical, economic . But I do want to push back a little bit on the elevation of this particular real estate in southern Italy. Richard Evans Schultes and the Search for Ayahuasca 17 days ago Plants of the Gods: S3E10. For those who didn't have the time or the money or the temerity to travel all the way to Eleusis from Spain, here's your off-site campus, right? In this episode, Brian C. Muraresku, who holds a degree from Brown University in Latin, Greek and Sanskrit,  joins Breht to discuss his fascinating book "The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name", a groundbreaking dive into the use of hallucinogens in ancient Greece, the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, the role of the Eucharist in early Christianity, the . In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. Yeah. You're not confident that the pope is suddenly going to issue an encyclical. The continuity hypothesis of dreams suggests that the content of dreams are largely continuous with waking concepts and concerns of the dreamer. I write it cognizant of the fact that the Eucharist doesn't work for many, many people. That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? That to live on forever and ever, to live an everlasting life is not immortality. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. That's staying within the field of time. If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. Phil's Picks | Phoenix Books The kind of mysticism I've always been attracted to, like the rule of Saint Benedict and the Trappist monks and the Cistercian monks. There have been breakthroughs, too, which no doubt kept Brian going despite some skepticism from the academy, to say the least. So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. The big question is, did any of these recipes, did any of this wine spiking actually make its way into some paleo-Christian ceremony. And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. It seems to me, though, that the intensity and the potency of the psychedelic experience is of an order of magnitude different than what I may have experienced through the Eucharist. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving That's all just fancy wordplay. I did go straight to [INAUDIBLE] Papangelli in Eleusis, and I went to the museum. An Exploration of Religion: An Interview with Brian Muraresku The Continuity Hypothesis of Dreams: A More Balanced Account I do the same thing in the afterword at the very end of the book, where it's lots of, here's what we know. What was being thrown into it? So I see-- you're moving back and forth between these two. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? The idea of the truth shall set you free, right, [SPEAKING GREEK], in 8:32. Wonderful, well, thank you. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. The Continuity Hypothesis was put forward by John Bowlby (1953) as a critical effect of attachments in his development of Attachment Theory. There are others claiming that there's drugs everywhere. Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . Copyright 2023 President and Fellows of Harvard College. And we know the mysteries were there. You mentioned, too, early churchmen, experts in heresies by the name of Irenaeus of Lyons and Hippolytus of Rome. CHARLES STANG: Thank you, Brian. The Tim Ferriss Show. And the big question for me was what was that something else? The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App And the reason I find that a worthy avenue of pursuit is because when you take a step back and look at the Greek of the Gospels, especially the Greek of John, which is super weird, what I see based on Dennis MacDonald's scholarship that you mentioned-- and others-- when you do the exegesis of John's gospel, there's just lots of vocabulary and lots of imagery that doesn't appear elsewhere. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. We still have almost 700 with us. Now-- and I think that we can probably concede that. And I think that we would behoove ourselves to incorporate, resuscitate, maybe, some of those techniques that seem to have been employed by the Greeks at Eleusis or by the Dionysians or some of these earliest Christians. One attendee has asked, "How have religious leaders reacted so far to your book? 18.3C: Continuity Theory. BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. Did the potion at Eleusis change from generation to generation? Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. PDF The continuity between pagan and Christian cult - Scandinavia Lots of Greek artifacts, lots of Greek signifiers. So I'm not convinced that-- I think you're absolutely right that what this establishes is that Christians in southern Italy could have-- could have had access to the kinds of things that have been recovered from that drug farm, let's call it. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. So, like, they're wonderstruck, or awestruck by their libations and their incense. The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. Did the Early Church Use Psychedelics? - Substack The actual key that I found time and again in looking at this literature and the data is what seems to be happening here is the cultivation of a near-death experience. There's some suggestive language in the pyramid texts, in the Book of the Dead and things of this nature. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. BRIAN MURARESKU: I wish I could answer that question. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? I wish that an ancient pharmacy had been preserved by Mount Vesuvius somewhere near Alexandria or even in upper Egypt or in Antioch or parts of Turkey. What's the wine? Where are the drugs? What is its connection to Eleusis? And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? What the Greeks were actually saying there is that it was barley infected with ergot, which is this natural fungus that infects cereal crops. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. Brian's thesis, that of the Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, was explored by Alexander Hislop in his "The Two Babylons", 1853, as a Protestant treatise in the spirit of Martin Luther as Alexander too interjects the Elusinian Mysteries. 32:57 Ancient languages and Brian's education . Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, Harvard Divinity School42 Francis Avenue, Cambridge, Massachusetts 02138 617.495.4495, my.hds |Harvard Divinity School |Harvard University |Privacy |Accessibility |Digital Accessibility | Trademark Notice |Reporting Copyright Infringements. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? BRIAN MURARESKU: OK. We know from the literature hundreds of years beforehand that in Elis, for example, in the Western Peloponnese, on the same Epiphany-type timeline, January 5, January 6, the priests would walk into the temple of Dionysus, leave three basins of water, the next morning they're miraculously transformed into wine. BRIAN MURARESKU: I look forward to it, Charlie. They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. CHARLES STANG: All right. And this is what I present to the world. BRIAN MURARESKU: Now we're cooking with grease, Dr. Stang. Those religions featured psychedelic beer and ceremonies lead by women . I'm not sure many have. That event is already up on our website and open for registration. There were formula. That there is no hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data for spiked beer, spiked wine. And that's where oversight comes in handy. So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. You become one with Christ by drinking that. and he said, Brian, don't you dare. Psychedelics are a lens to investigate this stuff. You see an altar of Pentelic marble that could only have come from the Mount Pentelicus quarry in mainland Greece. It was-- Eleusis was state-administered, a somewhat formal affair. In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. Here's your Western Eleusis. The pagan continuity hypothesis theorizes that when Christianity arrived in Greece around AD 49, it didn't suddenly replace the existing religion. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact So we not only didn't have the engineering know-how-- we used to think-- we didn't have even settled life to construct something like this. The fact that the Vatican sits in Rome today is not an accident, I think, is the shortest way to answer that. And her answer was that they'd all been cleaned or treated for conservation purposes. Nazanin Boniadi But we do know that the initiates made this pilgrimage from Athens to Eleusis, drunk the potion, the kykeon, had this very visionary event-- they all talk about seeing something-- and after which they become immortal. And I think that's an important distinction to make. And according to Wasson, Hofmann, and Ruck, that barley was really a code word. It's funny to see that some of the first basilicas outside Rome are popping up here, and in and around Pompeii. It tested positive for the microscopic remains of beer and also ergot, exactly the hypothesis that had been put forward in 1978 by the disgraced professor across town from you, Carl Ruck, who's now 85 years old, by the way. All episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show - Chartable So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. Two Reviews of The Immortality Key - Graham Hancock The most influential religious historian of the twentieth century, Huston Smith, once referred to it as the "best-kept secret" in history. Like in Israel. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? But we at least have, again, the indicia of evidence that something was happening there. So that's something else to look into. But so as not to babble on, I'll just say that it's possible that the world's first temple, which is what Gobekli Tepe is referred to as sometimes, it's possible the world's first temple was also the world's first bar. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. Because they talk about everything else that they take issue with. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to recurring overreach and historical distortion, failure to consider relevant research on shamanism and Christianity, and presentation of speculation as fact." I appreciate this. And so I do see an avenue, like I kind of obliquely mentioned, but I do think there's an avenue within organized religion and for people who dedicate their lives as religious professionals to ministry to perhaps take a look at this in places where it might work. So I think it's really interesting details here worth following up on. He dared to ask this very question before the hypothesis that this Eleusinian sacrament was indeed a psychedelic, and am I right that it was Ruck's hypothesis that set you down this path all those many years ago at Brown? You know, it's an atheist using theological language to describe what happened to her. So when Hippolytus is calling out the Marcosians, and specifically women, consecrating this alternative Eucharist in their alternative proto-mass, he uses the Greek word-- and we've talked about this before-- but he uses the Greek word [SPEAKING GREEK] seven times in a row, by the way, without specifying which drugs he's referring to. Hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data, I haven't seen it. CHARLES STANG: You know, Valentinus was almost elected bishop of Rome. So somewhere between 1% and 49%. And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". Just imagine, I have to live with me. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. But with what were they mixed, and to what effect? Mona Sobhani, PhD (@monasobhaniphd) / Twitter They linked the idea of witches to an imagined organized sect which was a danger to the Christian commonwealth. So Pompeii and its environs at the time were called [SPEAKING GREEK], which means great Greece. And I think that that's the real question here. The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. And another: in defending the pagan continuity hypothesis, Muraresku presumes a somewhat non-Jewish, pagan-like Jesus, while ignoring the growing body of psychedelic literature, including works by . And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. Administration and supervision endeavors and with strong knowledge in: Online teaching and learning methods, Methods for Teaching Mathematics and Technology Integration for K-12 and College . And I hear-- I sense that narrative in your book. I'm happy to argue about that. Tim Ferriss Show Podcast Notes I include that line for a reason. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. This event is entitled, Psychedelics, The Ancient Religion With No Name? That is about the future rather than the ancient history. Not because it's not there, because it hasn't been tested. You won't find it in many places other than that. Now the archaeologist of that site says-- I'm quoting from your book-- "For me, the Villa Vesuvio was a small farm that was specifically designed for the production of drugs." And I started reading the studies from Pat McGovern at the University of Pennsylvania. So the Eastern Aegean. And Dennis, amongst others, calls that a signature Dionysian miracle.