Therehappy? One must wonder, if Dr. White truly feels it necessary to be nasty to people and use biting sarcasm and insultswhy doesnt he do that in his books or scholarly articles? Deuteronomy 4:2, Ye It was a distortion. Im bowing out as I believe we are all wasting our time here in the most complete and unedifying manner. I will claim that he has done the deadliest thing for a humorist: failed to make his audience laugh. To do a thorough job would take time far beyond this combox and as I am not a sociologist of humor, I would certainly want to consult Christie Davies in England (he is not Catholic, so there could be no charge of bias), because he is a sociologist of humor and would have a better handle on that aspect of things. So put upon is he by the cacophonous calls for charity that he has to break the tension by putting up what he believes are a few innocent and humorous pictures. As you know by now, there are several available design options that you can choose from, to permanently display these two meaningful symbols on your skin. The Calvinist Club, Sola Scriptura, Purgatory, Purgatory: 1 Corinthians 3 and Tim Staples, Art Sippo on 1 Corinthians 3 and Purgatory, Called to Cyprian Responding to Anders Historical Error, The Audio for the Marian Dogmas Debate has been Posted, Top Ten Reasons NOT to Join the Roman Catholic Church. Fascinating and important stuff from the former Pope. Hello, is that just priceless or what? So Whites analogy is really intended to just get your attention, to help you feel the frustration he is feeling, to try and get past the only-morons-doubt-the-institution-that-brought-you-the-Inquisition mentality that just is so mind-blowing to people like me who havent been indoctrinated by it. P.O. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 13, 2007 4:28:08 PM Enough of this nonsense. We started a prayer thread for Dr White on the Prayer Forum of Catholic Answers. Please clarify your frustration for me. However, an en masse mailing would be counter-productive for at least two reasons I can think of. 3. The last 20 years hes walked with the Lord, hes had numerous roles and functions in the local church which have all led his family to Phoenix and then to Apologia to wholeheartedly serve and pour out their lives for the sake of the gospel of the Kingdom. Matthew, 1. Youve got White acting like Perry Mason, as if catching Beckwith playing fast and loose with his various understandings of Trent is going to make him finally jump up and shout, All right, I admit it! O Threadhijacker lol, Eileen. Trying to claim superiority is likewise wrong. It just goes to demonstrate how INEXCUSABLE someone elses claims were! Oh, by the way, how convenient that you have the benefit of hindsight, since the Canon of the New Testament that Protestants have was due to the Romanists! Your comments here are dead-on and what I was trying to express rather poorly and without much success Im afraid. I have a question Matthew, if the Catholic church is salvation through Christ, why must one confess to a Catholic priest to recieve absolution? I got a notification on my phone about an article posted by my daughter Summer, so I opened it up and began to read. No, not required if you dont want your sins forgiven. Would he? This is regardless of the bare facts of the case. In that post, Jimmy links to http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0309bt.asp How do you know that Hebrews is actually Scripture? So much for theocracy. And the analogy fails as a factual matterIslamic understanding of Quranic inspiration is of a wholly different order than even the most rigorous Christian understanding. Akin was simply wrong in his claim, that these images were depicting those [urging White] to be more charitable . Dont make the mistake of assuming I hold the same low standard as you. We dont have to follow the Ten Commandments. Assertion 1) Beckwith is a liar. Nice job sneaking in the hate reference (Islamists & Jews). If the RCC and its apologists are so concerned with charity, why do they not seriously deal with the issues that are presented by Protestant apologists such as James White instead of just insisting that everyone blindly follow the church without any kind of examination of the facts so that people will not be confused and misinformed by any lies? As director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, White also hosts a daily Dividing Line Podcast and radio show on the Alpha and Omega Ministries YouTube Channel. James White has *not* completely lost it. it is easier that way. Whites parting shots are: In whose eyes? Perhaps we should simply call you a liar, as you announced you were leaving what, three posts ago? Like for instance the constant personal character assassination and unsubstantiated accusations against one person in particular (James White). You cannot go to the individual books of the bible to determine just which books actually belong to the bible. Now you may say, Oh what about the Cathars? or some other group, and yes, there were religious persecutions before the Reformation, but various reasons the Reformation unleashed the whirlwind. With each passing phase of His unfolding of revelation in Scripture, canon (infalible) remained current and infallible, fully reflective (by necessity) of the ongoing work of enscripturation. well let me just say, your doing fine in that department already. Before today, I wasnt even aware of the www.jameswhite.org website which diverted visitors to Catholic Answers. Mea culpa for my role in this. What knowledge of the canon was established? Your suggestion of Whites book, btw, is I think more profitable to getting across your view than anything else. (By the way, wheres your reply to my interaction with your question? A more technical definition may be found in any number of treatises on moral theology. Whose uncritical acceptance are you referring to? CareBear, I said I seem to remember he gave you an extended period of time and it turns out it was just under fifteen minutes. : )to construct a remotely persuasive argument. How can you say it is SDGs personal determination when it is you who says it is? That is, was there a single bishop in attendance who believed, for example, in transubstantiation? Its not the priest who forgives me in the Confessional, its Jesus. To excuse that as gallows humor is an insult to those who put themselves on the line and have valid claim to gallows humor. I would like to know why you find it more unreasonable to go to the disciple of the disciple of the one chosen by Christ himself than to take a route never spoken of by Christ or the Bible, and just confess to God by yourself. Is Homosexuality Consistent with Biblical Christianity? Carebear, OK. Dr White has created something that has the structure of a joke (he has joke competence), but it is not realized as a joke by a large portion of the audience (he has failed to elicit humor competence). However, when non-White followers came into the channel, he would insult them, insinuate things like I am getting out my gun as if to shoot at people, then kick and ban them and then say see, I proved them wrong. Thats his method. (Of course, in that time, I did some theological reflection, and the doctrine developed into a more fully rounded & Biblical set of teachings. Tell me about it, StubbleSpark. For all thats worth. On both sides, you will notice the symbols of alpha and omega, as well. Thats all very interesting, and Im sure God knows whos winning the ad hominem war, but it bores me to tears and I have no time for it. Which is it? Ill take being familiar with logical fallacy to being familiar with Latin any day of the week. Are you a disciple? Jimmy on the other hand is just plain good person. The material is evil and corrupting and the spiritual is pure and corruptible. Foxfire, I respect Akin but I do feel he misdirected people away from the tough theological questions. Christ sent them forth to teach His doctrines, saying, As the Father has sent me, I also send you. (John 20:21) White chooses Nicea as some type of magical benchmark, because certain beliefs werent formally defined then, even though the belief existed (i.e., transubstantiation). I also do not wish to argue or debate. It was at the Council of Rome (382 AD) where the Canon was ultimately decided and subsequently reaffirmed at the Councils of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage (397 AD). CareBear, Whites response is twofold: James White owes Catholics an apology for this. However you: The implication of moral equivalency is outrageous and disgusting. The only thing that keeps the trolls here is our inability to honestly express gratitude to White for the credit he bestows upon Holy Mother Church and, by extension, us. It was nice not to have to run a words you cant say in 2021 in the US filter today as we were not live streaming on YouTube. If so, who chose you? But as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words and Ive now seen two thousand very ugly words from James White. I suppose such a thing fits the logic and attitude of the mob though. To the extent that I have been overbearing, I apologize. You are assuming that Catholic Answers is *stupid* and that is frankly offensive. Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 10:09:37 PM And dearest Father, sweet Abba, I pray that if this pain is to Theo, as the thorn in the flesh was to Paul, that You in Your mercy would allow Theo to recognise that. Sandy, Short answer, because Christ Himself gave the Church authority. . I see now that blindly following James White is acceptable for you. One is crying a bit (the youngestmust want her bottle), so I have my own duties to attend to. AOMIN App Also, its interesting how in your most recent comment, you have excluded the White disciple; therefore, would it be unreasonable for me to concluded now that you are pointing the finger at Catholics, since they would be the one, based on what youve been implying here and on the other thread, with the malicious intents? Gosh! It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. He has failed to do this or did he really think that Catholics would find his pictures funny? P.S. And those who obsess about their victimhood can never be heroes. For the record, I think White did behave poorly in questioning Beckwiths honesty. Rather than engage the *real issues* in this whole debate, such as the arguments Dr. White has presented to Dr. Beckwith against certain Roman Catholic doctrines, everyone has decided to focus on two pictures and a mans character. Neener, neener is taunting. So I hurried back to the spot where Alypius was sitting, for I had put there a the volume of the aspostle when I got up and left him. How do you manipulate the resurrected Christ? I didnt say it wasnt needed later on. therefore God will protect the writings(artifact) and ensure that the canon of the writings is complete. How is one reconciled with God? Disciples are followers. The Book of the Wars of the Lord I forgot Jimmys blog doesnt carry formatting through paragraph breaks. *waggles her eyebrows at Esau* Boor. Now instead, you ought to forgive and comfort him, so that he will not be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. He also loses any debate on this point via special application of Godwins Law. 2) A presumption that the spiritual and the material are at odds. In the lingo of the blogosphere a troll is someone who has no sincere interest in sharing ideas but only wishes to inject invective in order to anger other posters. The real history is that the Emperor Constantine took the court of Rome east, leaving the Pope to sit in Peters chair alone practically forshadowing the whole idea of separation of church and state. Just what is it about certain combinations of notes that make us feel sad, where others make us feel happy? Bible Versions: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly (Parts 1 and 2) (28,3,4), Examining Muslim Apologetics (Part Two): Unusual Attacks on the Trinity, Examining Muslim Apologetics (Part One): The Bible Versus the Quran, Dangerous Airwaves: Harold Campings Call to Flee the Church, The Divine Sovereignty-Human Responsibility Debate (Part Two), The Divine Sovereignty-Human Responsibility Debate (Part One), Pro and Con: Two Journal Contributors Respond to the Joint Declaration of Justification by Ralph E. Mackenzie and James R. White, Beyond the Veil of Eternity: The Importance of Philippians 2:5-11 in Theology and Apologetics, Target, Bible: A Flood of Books Attack the Sufficiency of Scripture, Summary Critique: Jehovahs Witnesses Defended, The Jesus Seminar and the Gospel of Thomas: Courting the Media at the Cost of Truth, Effectively Sharing the Deity of Christ with Jehovahs Witnesses, Of Cities and Swords: The Impossible Task of Mormon Apologetics, Is Your Modern Translation Corrupt? I read through a lot of these posts and didnt see anyone interact with Dr. Whites positions. His disciples were empowered. This is all pertinent to the next little blurb, which reads: Isnt Foxfier the name of a Clint Eastwood movie having to do with a so-named secret fighter jet or something like that? Final Dividing Line of 2022. If you pass judgement on me because I havnt gone along with a happy-go-lucky attitude the whole time then guilty as charged. However, I have every confidence youll find a way to excuse that behavior. And why do you think it apropos? To quote White, yet again; No, because Romanists go straight to Hell where they belong, didnt you already know that??? this is a blog where we chat. There is one last thing I would like to note. Yikes. This is amazing, the trent thing wasnt the real issue at all. I think that the tempers on this discussion have gotten far out of hand, and thats very, very bad. This is quite a work of art, to say the least! ;^). Donald Casadonte The Canon of Scripture (i.e, just what books actually belong in the Bible) cant be found in the individuals books that comprise the bible. seeing as you deem him important enough to name your apologetics website after him? On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. We still have recourse to mysticism, prayer, meditation, and personal sanctity. with Shabir Ally at Georgia Tech, Atlanta, Georgia 11/13/2019, Response to Dr. Shabir Ally, Part IV (Conclusion), Debate: Did the Earliest Followers of Jesus Believe in His Deity? William: check out Cy the Cyclopes kitten. Its kind of part of the package deal of being a confessing sinner. Amazing so since theyre dead, they dont know anything??? My choice is to accept or reject that grace. Christ said: As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it remain on the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in me. If you are going to consider White calling a man a bald-faced lair a real issue. That would be mundane. his or her jumping the gun about falsely ascribing malicious intent to Catholic Answer and Alternatively, depending on your preferences, you can also choose a design like this. In recent years James has debated in such locations as Sydney, Australia, as well as mosques in Toronto, London, and South Africa. Christ said: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into, the kingdom of God (John 3:5). Came to you live from somewhere in the wilds of Texas today, will be in Houston tomorrow with the What is Marriage? debate on Wednesday. But there are some acts against others that go to disrespecting their equality as a fellow human bearing the clear mark of their Creator in the workings of their mind and soul. I didnt accuse Catholic answers of anything. 2. Alex Islamist= radical Muslim, not to be confused with the non-murderous Muslims. On what evidence do you make this assertion? 2. helpful quotes between salvation and discipleship. Registrant Postal Code:92517 He (Dr Beckwith) repeatedly (two out of three aint bad) left his readers/listeners with the distinct impression that he had not read Trent until recently and insulted his former Lutheran professors by indicating they had led him to expect: to read this sort of horrible document, you know, requiring people to stick pins in their eyes, you know, and flagellate themselves, you know, When attention stops being paid, the screaming escalates. Its useless to try to reason with anyone who could defend those photos. (Eric)I respect Akin but I do feel he misdirected people away from the tough theological questions. Of course, I know both of you will continue on ignoring these facts, but, now that you have been informed you cant claim ignorance of the subject. Foxfier wrote ages ago: 2Thes 2:15: Maccabees (II) Ed, I wasnt looking in a mirror. 16:18) Unless it concerns history, which is my pet topic, then Im in there like a flash. I beg anyone who is defending Dr. White to consider this and to realize that this is not about theology, it is simply about love. Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!. Tech Street3: I am a Christian. And lo, I heard from a nearby house, chanting and repeating over and over, Take up and read. Although not quite as fast as calling yourself Thomas Aquinas or is that the name your Mama gave you. Jeff Durbin is Pastor/Elder of Apologia Church in Tempe since it was founded in February of 2010. so should you all, including James White] People are acting like all that was said what the trent comment. Until he does, however, it is simply silly of us to even engage in discussion with him or with any of you who think that those pictures are defensible. Use the right background for the right humor. We have been sucked into it because White needed something else to direct his attention to. and a card from Magic: the Gathering, which had a really, really pretty drawing and this quote: only a fool fears foxfire. Seems like thats the tone of the day at jimmyakin.org though. CareBear: Poor imitator of Our Lord that I am, I remain your servant and brother in Christ, There are only two other Foxfiers I have found, and one is on a single, defunct website. Indeed, her own topic of a nagging, impatient temperament. May God grant us the grace and send the Holy Spirit to lead us to be ever more like Jesus. Keep it up with the category errors, maybe the laws of logic will change and afford you the ability to rightfully get indignant over something that never occured. But if anything has been communicated in the 400-and-counting comments posted here, is that we feel the pictures are offensive and the comparison unjustified. I found your posts quite interesting, even though by now Im mostly reading, God forgive me, for the train wreck. Like I said earlier, jamesrwhite.org was registered 6 days ago.when was the start of this bruhaha? Mike, Ive used gallows humor myself. Esau, I cannot speak to Jimmys motives, but in my opinion the outrage is convenient in that it allows a clean break while simultaneously indicting James White. I certainly havent, and dont intend to. While the video lost some of the early audio portion, the Sermon Audio version is whole. Why dont you just summarize it for me, if you think it has bearing on this issue. God tests those He loves. And, it is becoming obvious, you were just trying to make a fight. and The Fatal Flaw. If you are interested in capturing true Greek essence on your skin, then this design may surely spark your interest. I have heard James White in debate also and he has always stuck to the task at hand and done so, in a Christ like manner. To the first he gave the name "RCfatwa" (i.e., Roman Catholic fatwa): To the second he gave the name "RCcharity" (i.e., "Roman Catholic charity"depicting the attitude of the man in the picture as the kind of charity that Catholics display): Toward the end of his post, White seeks to blunt criticism of these pictures (or appears to do so) by saying: Now, I have obviously attempted to insert a bit of levity, and a bit of humorous sarcasm here, for the simple reason that Im to the point where you either have to laugh or cry. Many people can express frustration quite effectively without resorting to photos like those. However, no matter how infallible God is, us men are fallible. Instead of requesting that I just go read the book, why not provide the salient points for me? Likewise, if you use any statement or general observation, there will be an accusation that the surrounding context somehow excused the gaffe, meaning that one has to literally quote every single piece of the entire article, transcript, etc., in ones answer. This is DISHONEST folks! BTW, you may not have noticed, but the post you refer to is a copy of a post to this web site. Dr. James White & Keith Giles, First Lutheran Church, 1311 Holman St., Houston, Texas 77004, The Death of Joseph Ratzinger, the Eternal Covenant in the London Baptist Confession, New Year Laws in California Show Deep Commitment to the Culture of Death, What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Quran, The Textus Receptus as the Word of God is Equal to the New Testament Autographs. I dont even agree with him fully, and *I* respect that class. And there never can be. James White is the director of Alpha and Omega Ministries, a Christian apologetics organization based in Phoenix, Arizona. And don't buy into the nonsense from any pastor or Bible college (e.g., Moody Bible comes ONLY by the imputed righteousness of God in response to one's faith in Its funny how you have maliciously characterized the actions of Catholics while COMPLETELY IGNORING the egregiously uncharitable actions of James White. Does it convey the information that you claim that he wants to convey, namely: When White does this analogy to jihadism to make his point, I think he does it out of a deep sense of frustration at how the other side doesnt seem to perceive the inconsistency of their own message.? Thatsobtuse. The issue is the exegesis of a particular text of Scripture that is very difficult. Why in the world that you: As I posted earlier, Whites defenders have displayed their fruits, by which we now know them. Here, the alpha and omega letters are placed in such a manner, that it is easy to see and separate the symbols. James has asked me to compile the complete response to David Gushees Reformation Project speech. Eric, Admin FAX: In the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. by his stripes I am healed. (Same people But in these discussions, when serious questions of historical transformation of dogma over time call into question the truth claims of Rome, and sting the conscience of those who genuinely seek truth, the reaction of throwing the messenger to the dogs while ignoring the message, and then calling that charity, is maddenly frustrating to watch. 42 Pins 5y T Collection by Tattoomaze Similar ideas popular now Tattoos Faith Tattoo Tattoo Designs And Meanings Tattoos With Meaning Chi Rho Tattoo Tattoo Art Tattoo Quotes Sacred Heart Tattoos Jesus Tattoo Old Symbols Religious Tattoos All Rights Reserved. No, I will not. Does he give account of his ministrys collections and how he spends his time and resources? Then see if youre still defending the guy. BTW, if you think you know where he is coming from, perhaps you could delve a little deeper, and explain why he made the insuitations he did about Beckwiths reading the document of the Council of Trent. I mean if you look at whites newest post he has a picture of a troll on in it! Medical staff, firefighters and police probably have their own versions of gallows humor. The individual has shown that he is not willing to make a good faith effort to abide by the terms of Internet discussions, and there is no point in discussing anything with himeither ever or at least until he seriously and sincerely acknowledges just how far over the line he was. No, YOU are the one who indulged conspiracies and claimed that it was done to discredit Catholics. Fuller Theological Seminary, and a Th.M., a Th.D. Your bad was imputing malicious intent on the most tenuous of circumstantial evidence. Does the Quran Misrepresent Christianity? I am fond of what talk radio host Dennis Prager holds as one of his key goals on his show: I prefer clarity over agreement. May it be so for us as well. In other words, it assumes either the Author first wrote a portion and then attained infallible knowledge of the canon, or attained both at the same time. The Epistle to Corinth sinner (Romans 3:19), and you believe the Posted by: CareBear | Aug 9, 2007 9:31:13 PM Inocencio Your comment uhm I did post at least one specific theological question that White was asking has at least two holes in it. Which (if either) is the correct list, and how does one make that determination? of Mapname.com customer 3 I will, therefore, just urge you 1] to grow deeply in the love and truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, bearing Gods fruit in every field of your life. No. Took some great Zoom calls today discussing the vine and the branches in John 15, MBTS, the Great Tradition, and Thomas (took a long time on this one), and then the Trinity, the Cross, inseparable operations, etc. Nor do I take issue with being called a goblin as I am not at all thin-skinned (as previously stated). This isnt an apologetics website, and frankly, most of us arent here to talk apologetics. The more important and interesting point is whether the humor passes the common man test: would a common man, independent of theological connotations, find the joke funny? If anyone shall not confess the holy ever-virgin Mary, truly and properly the Mother of God, to be higher than every creature whether visible or invisible, and does not with sincere faith seek her intercessions as of one having confidence in her access to our God, since she bare him, etc. Glorious Lord. When did you turn Sola Scriptura? To think that Protestants were behind the site directing traffic to CA is highly unlikely and sounds like something OJs Lawyers would have thought up. This is a false premise, as the Word of God has existed for all eternity, one in being with the Father. CB, Sandy, Gwen and the others have a filter through which they view the church, church history, and arguments against the church. I like this blog a lot and Jimmy personally (from what I know of him, I never met him) When I was graduating from my Baptist Seminary, I heard of a small group like that about thirty miles away. Fallacious though that may sound. I dont get this whole sense of entitlement. Hes frustrated. FOR PEOPLE TO ARGUE WITH YOU, THEY HAVE TO COME HERE TO DO IT. Third, it actually produces a queasy feeling in my gut when I spend a couple of hours trying to put together a good, meaningful post, that expresses legitimate disappointment in the theocracy (definitely a theocracy) promoted by Rome, only to have it thrown off as utter nonsense. Hehe, found out something amusing. What is so important about the pictures that they just cannot be taken down? Asked for prayer for Dennis Pillay and his wife in South Africa as end-of-life issues confront them, that God would give comfort and strength. Beyond that, its a game. how do you determine what is Scripture and what is not??? So much for the perspicuity of Scripture. Now; As far as Dr Beckwith having some moral superiority over Dr White on the issue of Charity: I think he lost that the minute he started impugning Dr Whites character and motives. Might want to go back to the start of it to follow the argument, rather than going off on tangents. 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Two reasons I can think of a troll on in it for people to argue or debate doctrines saying!, it is SDGs personal determination when it is issue with being called a goblin as I not... Done to discredit Catholics name your apologetics website after him how INEXCUSABLE someone elses were! May God grant us the grace and send the Holy Spirit to lead us be! Are fallible direct his attention to reply to my interaction with your question constant character... Have valid claim to gallows humor the record, I think more profitable getting.