I got my ticket after age 50. So at least the medical makes we go for a check up. I am working on my private pilot license and I was honest and admitted to an episode of seasonal depression treated with medication (which I no longer require or take). In our opinion, and even for a moment disregarding the morality of lying and putting yourself, your passengers, and anyone elses safety at risk, it simply isnt worth lying despite the low chances of getting caught. FAA needs to justify their man hours.with scapegoats. I think that increasing the value of a worn out C150 to about $100K (which would happen the day they were included in the category) would take most of the trainer fleet out of circulation and the already paultry number of students would dry up completely. Type 2 diabetes, with oral medication, receiving a special issuance every year, until this last one, when the FAA generously determined my AME could recertify me, annually, for five years. 45,000 Northern California pilots with current medical certificates Wow - are there really 45,000 pilots with current medicals in just Northern California? Mike F, I agree, Im probably taking the same medication, also works for IBS. Some pilots are terrified of the FAA's power to revoke their flying privileges and, accordingly, bend or ignore the rules. The AME can comment on the problem stating that it no longer exists and you are not on medication in the comments section on the 8500-8 and submit it along with the note from your counsellor to the FAA and go ahead and issue your Medical Certificate. According to Dr. Guillermo J. Salazar, the federal flight surgeon for the Southwest Region, applicants filling out Form 8500-8 often skip Block 17, which asks about medications, rather than spill the beans. What Are the Chances of Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? Thanks,for the new online magazine. https://www.oig.dot.gov/sites/default/files/SAFE_PILOT_Testimony_july17.pdf. It says "last three years" so there's a one year overlap for us older guys applying for a third class. (BTW, I am a member of both.) Parasailing. All other patients was sick, so sick but pilots healthy, so healthy. It may be that some of you folks are not involved as subcontractors to the Airframe manufacturers. I have thought about going Sport Pilot but if I am not healthy enough to pass tests for a 3rd class physical I am not healthy enough to fly sport pilot. Ruin a life a move on. Before treatment, when I was sleepy, FAA wasnt concerned. in detail and conduct a physical exam. However many of the folks you are asking are not quite so anonymous. I suffer from multiple personality disorder, but all of the voices affirm they are qualified pilots. This is to screen for diabetes and kidney disease. I've known guys who've cheated the system but have never heard of anyone in or close to my circle of pilot frinds who've had any aeromedical violation investigations. The 1320 pound (600 Kg) limit is based on the European standard, I think. He then went on to work for the leading aviation magazines, including as editor of both AOPA Pilot and Flying. G E King, All content is fact-checked before publication. I just wonder why? The issue is what we feel is important, because the government wants a complete history and providing it isnt possible and pilots are going to make their own judgements about whats truly important to fully disclose. Two of the pilots I know of with these problems have Class 1 Medical Certificates. I can empathize with that Louis. Drowning deaths 2400 The big question is whether it matters. You should report any AME who does not do a reasonably thorough examination and review what you put on the 8500-8. If the FAA ever decides to search to see if he is taking any prescription medications (which they dont do often, but they have the ability to do), they will most likely pull his medical permanently for falsification. Brian, what about a medication that was rx when you were eight and havent taken for 20yrs? Anyway I am long through flying now. Find one that will work with you to meet the necessary requirements, but lying is not an option. Special Issuance hoop jumping is expensive. In this case, you can cast doubt on the original diagnosis and attempt to avoid further evaluation. Anyone who would report this immediately loses their medical and has to wait a year. Ultimately, a FAA medical denial for ADHD is almost never the end of the road for an airman. Its about cooperating with your doc so you can keep doing what you love. That is when the truth will come out. Funny thing is the murmur is gone but Ill never have my life back If you lie on your medical form Best of luck. Under the new regulation, when the first class privileges expire after twelve months, the first class medical lapses to a third class medical. My new AME, (old one finally retired,) is a pilot, as is his wife, the office manager and head nurse. Your AME will review your MedXPress application in detail and conduct a physical exam. This doesnt happen very often because Oklahoma City deals with up to 700,000 to one million people a year but if one does get caught then one could face some legal trouble in court. He proceeded to read off the list and after a half dozen items to which I responded No, he said You wouldnt tell me if you had any of these, would you? Thats just BS. And, actually, the FAA is making Special Issuance less of a problem for certain diseases. Lie by default. I dont blame poeple for lying. I am a physician instrument pilot with an appreciation for medical limitations. Im 64 and working on my PP license. What does NTSB say? Please type or print legibly and remember to sign and date the request. No mercy from the FAA and I was not even allowed to go to a hearing I just got the notice of revocation one day and that was it. I have been flying for 39 years and professionally since I was 18. Get thorough guidance on how to proceed. Needless to say, I have never taken a $100 Hamburger flight. Google "Operation Safe Pilot." In a blatant violation of the privacy act of 1974 as amended, the FAA, DOT Inspector General, and SSA Inspector General, conducted an illegal database match looking for common personally identifying information (names and/or social security numbers) in the FAA medical certificate database and the SSA Title 2 and Title 16 disability databases of 45,000 Northern . But missing information will simply cause delays and more work; the medical examiner and/or the FAA's Aeromedical Certification Division in Oklahoma City, Okla., won't process an incomplete form. I can meet Class 1 if I fib. And even if you assume not, an investigation will cause a demand to produce documents and then the liar is cooked. Question 17 can identify for the FAA that an individual is currently taking a disqualifying medication such as Adderall, Ritalin, Concerta, Strattera, etc, commonly used to treat ADHD. You would be surprised how many complaints FSDOs receive for folks reporting their family members. Always wondered if the stress from taking the medical had anything to do with it. There could be a much better system in place that would not compromise safety of small aircraft. Great guy, but he needlessly put a lot of peoples lives in danger. Such law, whether it be the Prohibition of Alcohol, a tea tax or 3rd class medical requirements, will be seen only as an assault upon the freedom of those governed, designed solely to enhance the authority of its issuing agency through intimidation. Where is this regulation? Seek help, get punished? Theres also the issue of things that a doctor may speculate on that they have no training or qualifications to formally diagnose. If your AME does not spot anything on your physical exam, you have a clean driving record and you have never served in the military, chances are that the FAA will not question the information you submit in MedXPress. Compared to all causes of death, these are infinitesimal numbers. Risk is a price of freedom. I am working with a private party who specializes in this sort of thing and he cant really give me definitive answers either; just educated opinion and guidance. At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. I Fly America 2021, Paul Engstrom, Aviation Writer and IFA Member, Health for Pilots: A Complete Guide to FAA Medical Certification and Self-Care. Question:Do you think most pilots fib on applications for medical certificates? Policy An exam for a third class medical certificate with a student pilot certificate can cost between $75 and $150. With the right preparation, you can navigate the process efficiently. I think that FAA should be concerned about this difficulty in people. I dont care who you are if you tell me that you have never been diagnosed with anything then you are the liar. Again, Im not arguing against the need for medical certification, but the process needs some serious streamlining. The all have SODA and continue to fly. What are the chances you will get caught? This is done by directly contacting you the pilot. After 30 years without a problem, one would think the risk of incapacitation is no greater than the general pilot population flying on a normal class III medical. Governmental overkill? Gordon, thank you, that will be $110. Most of us fly for recreation and a burning fire within to fly, and the Sport program can be just the ticket. When the whole 3rd class medical requirement is seen in a larger context, its absurdity can be seen. Returning home, the Civil Aviation Medical Board cleared me for flying. Due to the self-reporting nature, the chances of getting caught lying on an FAA medical aren't very high. What Are the Chances of and Penalties for Getting Caught Lying on an FAA Medical? I stopped learning to fly as I did not have the additional funds to have the CAA medical. We are equally desiring of our freedom, but because we are a small group, the bureaucracy can get away with it. The process is so closed ,opaque, and bureaucratic. And yet still I do not feel I can speak freely to them. If the FAA is lieing why should we worry about non-commercial pilots? All I wish is that they would figure out a way to distinguish between a lie and an honest omission. FAA Current Detailed Clinical Progress Notes. Skye, you may be a little over the top with your attitude but not by all that much. Would the FAA prefer people to auger in because they are depressed rather than get a medication. XYZZY62, Check the AME Guide posted at faa.gov to determine what the FAA requires for your seasonal depression. Also the FAA does check your National Driver Register/Record so make sure you keep your driving safe. A good AME will tell you how to jump through the hoops so that when you go for your FAA medical certificate, you have all the data needed for the FAA. Pilots that I talk to share the same dreams as I do and we all began chasing the dream at an extremely young age. Email me at [emailprotected]. At worse, you may face a hefty fine or even criminal prosecution. I was told at a young age I could not fly with one eye, but latter in life I found out I could with a medical waver. Its sad. This is very disturbing to say the least, why bother imposing rules, laws or the like if there is no punishment implemented??? The relative numbers of fatalities in all of General Aviation (GA) vs those from other causes. Im not trying to be deceitful, but I really want to be prepared for this interview and I dont see the importance of something that wont effect flying. I suggest that every pilot take a look at the AME Guide on the FAA website. Since my late 30s, I have taken meds to control my blood pressure. Your signature at the bottom authorizes the FAA to search the National Drivers Registry for violations involving alcohol or illegal drugs, for instance, so you may want to think twice about trying to conceal a drunk driving conviction. The current system not only encourages dishonesty, it encourages pilots to avoid medical treatment and ignore symptoms. Too much information could mean denial of the application and bureaucratic warfare with the FAA. So why open a can of worms by telling the aviation medical examiner? I am in full support of the exemption and hope you will support it too; after all, it has worked for the Sport program and it seems it will work for you! No pill makes that any different no weekly conversation with an over-paid, disinterested asshole makes it different either. I was shocked I never thought a medical would ever be an issue for me. If you dont take a medication NOW, it does not need to be reported. Both asked for, and received, removal of their Special Issuance. If I have a bad cold, or whatever, I will DQ myself for flight, even if such action results in a profound economic penalty for me even though I have a valid First Class Medical. I used to go up about twice a week; now I havent flown since August. Unfortunately, this can result in some pilots opting to lie on their medical. After you complete your MedXPress application, you will need to schedule an FAA flight physical with an Aviation Medical Examiner (AME). The information contained herein is meant for informational purposes only. That would translate into 45-50 deaths a year. Until the rules change, abide by them, and make sure you self monitor. If you decide to undergo a physical despite questionable health, first gather all medical documents, such as a letter from your family doctor stating that a condition has been treated and resolved, and present them to the AME. On a related note, has anyone used an aeromedical service company to help obtain/renew a medical certificate? The AME is there to help you get a medical LEGALLY when you have one or more disqualifying conditions. I just left the Marine Corps and want nothing more than to begin my flight training, but I still cant help but wonder about the outcome, especially after all I have read on this thread. I was even showing a bit of talent for it and progressing very nicely towards my private pilot certificate. ALTHOUGH IF I HAD ONE LITTLE INKLING OF BEING UNSAFE I WOULD QUIT. My AME is like a brother to me and a damn good doc to boot Lamentably, if I have something which could be a liability to me on my next medical, I can not ask my AME/best friend about my problem, and discuss it with him. Headwind vs. Tailwind Whats the Difference? So if there is cause, e.g a call to the FAA's hotline, an investigation will occur, and these will be seen and rather quickly. One may invoke Fifth Amendment rights, but not outright lie. While the bills in Congress to eliminate the Class 3 Medical Certificate are progressing slowly, the FAA is taking steps to minimize the bureaucratic red tape involved with certain illnesses, such as prostate cancer. The only way to get information to them is via the USPS, another government agency stuck in the past. No. Signed, RN/PPSEL/IFR. Pilot Health - Should I not disclose this on my FAA medical? A pilot might reason, for example, that the antidepressant he's taken for months hasn't caused any side effects and actually makes him more mentally fit to fly, a safer pilot. Try to determine why it is required of you, but not others, with OSA. Does the FAA really pull your medical permanently? Managing a flight department or want to offer a premium service to your club members or students. Every single pilot lied on their medical form. Of course, as others have posted here NO ONE can truthfully answer no to all the questions because of ever. Furthermore if one has the right against self-incrimination in court testimony, why should one be forced to self-incriminate before a Federal Agency that is extremely bureaucratic, slow to change, and out of touch with reality? N I served 6 years with the U.S. Secret Service, protecting POTUS and his family. instead of just listening to the engine, watch the instruments that monitored the engine. I hid it from the FAA for 12 years They found out I didnt disclose it and revoked ALL my certificates ATP multi-single engine land, Commercial rotorcraft and glider as well as all my flight instructor certificates. You do not have to be Richard Collins or Ernest Gann simply a GA pilot with a story youd share with friends sitting in the hangar. , you can navigate the process efficiently. Such a persons private physician(s) might not think so, but those physician(s) have no say in the matter. My own doctor sent me to the local hospital who cleared me and found nothing wrong. Speaking as a pilot, I think that there should be a way to maintain certification for those of us flying recreationally without having to see an AME every 2 years. You are better off to work truthfully with your AME. If you are stupid and want to wait months for a medical waiver. Now you tell me how sad it is when an idiot declares you have daltonism and denies you the ability to fly, so ruining your dream forever. How about providing you SSAN when the FAA does not need it? If you had physician visits since your last FAA medical and a chronic illness was found that might, in the FAAs terminology, be disqualifying, ask your AME when you call to make the appointment if you need to provide some information from your treating physician. This is why sometimes it becomes necessary to avoid telling the attending physician more than is necessary least the physician spin the whole condition in different light by making a mountain out of a mole hill, thereby destroying the flying career of the pilot for something that even the physician himself or herself is not sure about. If you have any concerns about your next FAA flight physical. He landed safely, but it was his last flight. And the Medical Flight Test needs to be taken only once and the SODA is good indefinitely. We have an entrenched bureaucracy that refuses to relinquish power and money. Neither IFA, nor Paul Engstrom assume any responsibility or liability for events that occur due to actions you or others on your behalf take based on the information given in this article. My name is not Gustavo either. But the standards are not different. Much is right there too, but that practice detracts from an otherwise good performance. It can also ensure you keep flying for years to come. Have you ever been dizzy etc. Trying to fix an accidental lie on my medical. I was so desperate to lower the volume that I installed a volume control in my own headset so I would not be blasted out of my seat. You know what, I think we should drown the FAA in paperwork in protest. Everyone at some point or another you all have been diagnosed with something. Nonetheless, the posts are very short for novices. Self certification is where the FAA should focus their energy. The FAA can get your records from Social Security if you are on Medicare. I have been flying with a special issuance 3rd class physical for 15 years. I am a nurse and I see it all of the time. All because of a blood pressure medication I put on my 2012 medical form. Does anyone know the statistics of how often a dead pilot at a crash is found to have prescribed medications for a condition that has not been reported on the 8500-8? I found my regular doctor because I was looking for an AME. And on the other hand we have people like the pilot mentioned in J. Mac McClellans article Too Many Risks in the May 2012 issue of Sport Aviation who out right lied about his substance use and abuse. Make the FAA do a special issue for every single pilot in the country. 11-06-2013, 09:45 AM #7 ackattacker. have you ever once in your life had and on the other hand they are so vague. Free health screenings, nope, wont do those, might turn up something (whether correctly or incorrectly) that could end up costing me a fortune to deal with. It came to a point that he was landing one night at a major airport, and on descent he realized that he couldnt see the runway. The FAA is hopelessly stuck in the stone age, especially in the Aeromedical division. Thank you for the help. Question 18m. Once everything is done and documented properly,they should issue the medical quickly. They were like so we dont think you ever had it Passed tests with flying colors. The simple fact is that the FAA generally trusts pilots. None of the above activities has any significant medical requirement. Oh sure they lie. The FAA has panels of civilian medical experts for each speciality who meet regularly to review the FAA medical regulations and recommend changes based on new research. Never happens! WOW they had a conniption, and I lost my ticket for several months while they dithered. Most pilots I know plan to fly for longer than it takes one or two medical certificates to expire. Those marathons at age 26 paid off. Federal Air Surgeon Jon Jordan is very aware of the FAA fear factor among pilots who worry about the potential consequences of filling out the form truthfully. Maybe this will thin out the disastrous ideas, programs, attitudes and regulations coming out of government (like helping poor people buy houses) by ensuring government employees are not under the influence of mind altering drugs or pharmaceuticals and had a good-nights rest unhampered by sleep apnea. No problem there both were on the approved list (most are). Lie, definitely not. Before submitting your application, you will be required to review the penalties above, certify that you know the FAA will be scrutinizing your medical history, and authorize the National Driver Register to provide the FAA with a copy of your driving record. There are are more decisions that have to be made while driving than flying. Also, if you are too young for that, they can check other insurance companies and, apparently, a company, McKesson I believe, that gathers and compiles statistical data from and for insurance companies. Pilots need to grow some, stand together, and stop tolerating it. You had better not try to get on medication to calm you down and thus make you a safer pilot because you will no longer be able to fly. TO LOW TO BAIL SO HAD TO TO FLY IT DOWN . ANY RESPONSE WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED! no? I wonder if your AME is really doing everything he can to be your advocate in this situation. The Aircraft Registration Branch maintains registration records on individual aircraft and serves as a repository for airworthiness documents received from FAA field offices. I am all in favour of your own doctors certificate of good health. In order to understand how likely it is the FAA would catch you lying, it is important to understand how they would catch you. But, sooner or later, most pilots will develop a medical condition that they cannot hide. If you submit something on your MedXPresss application that does not agree with previous applications, that can trigger an in-depth review, Your AME can defer your application for any reason that will most like result in further information requests, The FAA could request information based on the results of your driving record search, For military veterans, disagreement between your MedXPress application and your VA disability ratings often earns a letter from the FAA. They want to approve, not deny medicals. Anonomous, With holding important information. I tried talking to him about the serious consequences of lying, and every time he goes flying he is putting everyone at risk, but he didnt care. He was the author of numerous books, including. I was STUPID enough to be honest. As a 74 year old pilot, I feel that seeing the Aviation Doc every two years is good for my health. The smart ones do. https://airfactsjournal-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/06180933/doctorlargesquare1.jpg, https://airfactsjournal-images.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/06142440/Air-Facts-Logo340.jpg, COPYRIGHT 2011-2023, SPORTSMAN'S MARKET, INC. All Rights Reserved. Fly over open country and probably be able to put the plane down in a field if there were trouble but the FAA has a BIG resounding NO for that. So, instead of less regulation, we need more and along with that comes enforcement. I am 55. Sign up for our free email newsletter, packed with tips, tricks and news for pilots. Direct Primary Care Physician for Pilots? I was an investigator for the CIA from 2001-2006 and armed security for CIA facilities for 4 years after that. From open heart surgery and stroke to PTSD and diabetes, it is possible to qualify for an FAA medical certificate with more conditions than most pilots suspect. Insurance companies now have a way out of paying the claim and if there were passengers or other property damage involved now lawyers get involvedsomething to think about! Whether or not your AME issues your medical certificate, the FAAs Aeromedical Certification Division (AMCD) will review your application. Wiley Post would have never passed a physical. Until the rules change, abide by them, and make sure you self monitor. The responsibility for a safe flight in my aircraft is mine not the AMES, and most certainly not the FAAs. However, when it comes to flying without another capable pilot on board.only friends and family..that is another matter. The bottom line is,if you cant be truthfull to yourself,you cant be truthfull at all. Im not saying I have a medical cert, but if I did this is what I would do. Hell no. The word EVER in the forms will toss you through a buttload of psychological tests you will be sorry you were ever honest. It is against the APC Forum Rules to advocate any labor action which is not authorized by the RLA/NMB. The problem is I was diagnosed with ADHD back when I was about 9. Such disorders might be genetic. Needless to say, I dont have my class 3 medical now. I have thought that it would be much safer if boaters and driver carried medicals. The other crewmembers will consult the seniority list to see how they fare after my death. So whatever reason the FAA brings to you such as your depressed or you have ADD, they dont know what the **** theyre talking about. In addition to providing your name, address, recent doctor appointments and hospitalizations, and details about your medical history, you will also need to acknowledge several warnings. Nope, they requested an entirely new one. Not just surprise test changes from the FAA but the FMCSA again wanting to reduce truck drivers hours of service due to fatigue despite the lack of evidence published on the FMCSAs own web site. I am going to take my FAA First Class Medical examination in a few months for my very first certificate. I am going to start a letter campaign to ask the people who can make this happen (our elected officials), to get behind it and make it happen quickly. If you qualify for an FAA medical certificate, they will issue it to you at the end of your appointment, document your exam findings, and transmit your application to the FAA. Now compare the above tabulation with: GA total deaths 400 When I was active duty Air Force we had a guy pass his medical and they drop from a heart attack the next day while sitting on his couch. The FAA gives final denial to only 0.01% of applications. If successful with testing, you can then make further arguments that you do not have an aeromedically significant medical condition. Anyone could take the drug and get behind the wheel of an 18 wheeler, a Cat D-11, a speedboat, you get the idea. I fly a Cirrus, my wife knows how to pull the parachute. Again, take a look at the AME Guide on the FAA website. your PIC in the Cockpit might have the most serious medical condition, but will never no it thats why the federal government made the HIPPA law. You are there to take away joy and livelihood. I lost my career as an airline pilot (major airline) and my life spiraled out of control. From the archives: how valuable are check rides? Yes the present medical sytem sucks but, its all we have until better management goes to Washington. Federal Aviation Regulations require that a pilots distant vision be 20 /20 or better, with or without correction, in EACH eye separately to hold a first or second class medical certificate. Outright lie began chasing the dream at an extremely young age a physical exam Board cleared me flying... It is against the need for medical limitations point or another you all have been flying with a pilot. Through a buttload of psychological tests you will be sorry you were ever honest,. 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